Strivin & Thrivin E20. Jo McCatty

Strivin & Thrivin Ep20. Jo McCatty – Founder & Global Career Coach

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On the podcast this week Laura and Tim catch up with Jo McCatty, Founder of Protoscience, a global career coaching business specialising in STEM and Life Science. Jo is also part-time Head of Talent for Invisible Partners, a talent consultancy while hosting her own podcast, Seven.  

Like many postgraduates, Jo went travelling after university and settled in London with the intention of pursuing her science degree to a career in pharmaceuticals. When presented with an opportunity Jo didn’t hesitate to take it up and hasn’t looked back since. 

It seems, I found people more interesting!” she says. 

Though, while her career moved away from the sciences, she’s remained an advocate for it and woven it back into her career today. In this episode, we take a trip down memory lane to reflect on her career in recruitment and how the industry has served her over the years. Having worked in all corners of recruitment, Jo’s insight is broad and invaluable and we gauge how she believes success in this field comes with passion. 

“You have to love the idea of helping someone find their next opportunity.” 

Talking us through the key differentials between internal, agency and executive recruitment, we segway into Jo’s experience with career coaches and the impact it can have on career success. 

Jo is someone who champions career coaching having eased herself into it over the years, working it in around her full-time job before seeing an opportunity to make more of it, particularly in the STEM fields. Jo sees coaching as “a side passion project that becomes something that you want to do more of,” and has used her podcast to give voices to those within the STEM community and highlight opportunities and prospects for those pursuing careers in these fields. 

“Good coaches, they meet you where you are and they give you what you need without you knowing what that is” 

This week’s podcast is great for anyone considering a coach, mentor or STEM career. Jo shares fascinating insight into how she juggles parenthood, a startup, a podcast and a part-time job and it’s an inspiring listen! 

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Laura: I’m your host, Laura Johnson, and today I’m lucky enough to have Tim Griffiths as my wonderful Strivin & Thrivin co-host. Today, we’re thrilled to be joined by Jo McCatty.

To get us started, Jo, can you tell us a little bit about your career background and your current role?

Jo: So, my career background, like many recruiters, it started off doing something completely different. For me, it was science. I really loved it. I loved it in high school. It’s because of my teacher, I blame her, Mrs. Galstey and chemistry was all that for me and so much so, I went on and did that in university and had the intention of being a scientist for the rest of my life. But when I went traveling, as many Aussies do, I ended up in London with the intention of looking for a science role in the pharmaceutical sector because the pharmaceutical sector wasn’t really that buoyant here. It was very competitive. So, I thought do some traveling, end up somewhere there, in a pharmaceutical organisation as an R&D scientist, but that didn’t happen.

I took a career switch. Proposition was presented to me from the agency that I was talking to that was helping me find an opportunity. And it was just at that, this or that stage, because they lined something up for me, it was translating to an offer. And just before the offer was signed by me, they just said, “How about this? What would you think about recruiting?” And I was like, “What about recruiting?”, science recruiting doesn’t really go. So, I know there are many stories out there that probably line up the way mine did and I haven’t looked back since. So, it seems, I found people more interesting.

Tim: And one of the many Australian recruiters in London because that’s where they all are. And then over here, we’re all English.

Jo: Yes. That’s right. We do a swap. We do a country swap, when it comes to recruiting. Yeah. So fast forward to now, what that has meant was I’ve stayed within recruitment for the last couple of decades. As many, we start an agency don’t we? Before we end up being internal, that’s exactly what happened to me. And that’s led to a couple of things.

My start-up business, Protoscience, which is a global career coaching business and all the angst and pain that goes into no sleep, should I eat, or should I sleep? You probably understand, Laura. And I’m also working part time as a Head of Talent for Invisible Partners, building the community and coaching individuals who get, I guess, seconded to the clients that we work with. And it’s small to medium sizes. So, it’s setting people up for success while still working for the clients.

Laura: I love that. I’ve got lots of questions. I’m going to start with talking about kind of going from agency recruitment to in-house, how was that transition? What advice can you offer? Because I know that’s something that’s come up a few times that people tend to struggle with. So yeah, let’s start there.

Jo: I think you just have to love recruiting to start with, period. You have to love the idea of helping someone find their next opportunity. The in-house role, the biggest difference I find is it’s end-to-end. So not only are you doing the attraction piece, engaging and really getting to know the candidates. As an agency or a person working for an agency, you kind of hand it off to the internal team or HR team, and then they kind of take it forward and do the rest. That’s typically what happens. I mean, with exec search, there’s a bit more handholding with the clients to take people through. As well as the clients, whilst they’re embarking on trying to attract that talent or enticing them away from another organisation to join theirs.

But for internal end-to-end stakeholder management building relationships, it’s the next level. Really getting to know them as well as what the candidate needs are in depth. And they come to you as an advisor. They may come across a couple of candidates that they like, and they interview them, and they come to you and say, “What are your thoughts?”. Even after they’ve gone through their own sorts of evaluation. So, I think that’s the biggest difference that you really take care of the end-to-end, from attraction all the way through to the point of onboarding. And now with internal mobility, recruiters are getting involved more with supporting people in businesses find their next role in the business. Well, that’s my thinking anyway, that’s my illusion.

Laura: I think the talent mobility piece is really interesting. It’s actually something we’ve talked about quite a lot over the last week, just randomly talking to people. Because I think it’s such an opportunity, especially right now when we can’t hire the people we want to hire, and we can’t bring in talent like we used to. There has to be so much more focus on that mobility piece. So, it’ll be interesting to see how that plays out over the next kind of 12, 18 months, I think.

Jo: Mmm I agree. Yes. And it is quite important.

Laura: Just thinking more about what you’re doing now, what kind of led you to coaching?

Jo: It all started with my first internal Talent Acquisition role, having worked in agency then exec search. Then I took the plunge into GSK, in Brentford, and I loved it. It was there that I naturally just started having conversations with people internally, who are looking for their next role. And it became a thing in the cafe downstairs called Kix, “Oh Jo, I heard you help such and such. Can I just have a chat with you about what I want to do next? I’m not really sure or, well, I want to try something completely different in the business. How do I go about doing so?”. So, I’d say it was ignited back then, but it wasn’t until 2018 that I decided, well actually I want to do more of this because I’m doing it anyway.

And so, as many coaches start out, you start to think, “Okay, I’ve been recruiting. Coaching, I think I’ll do it pro bono. Let me try this out. Let me see if this is for me. Let me see if what my thinking is actually what it is”. And fast forward 2020, you do it at the same time. Well, I did it at the same time as working. So, it’s like a side, I won’t say hustle, but that’s what I used to call it. It just feels hard when you say hustle. A side passion project that becomes something that you want to do more of.

And then you get to a stage where you think, “Well, how can I make it so I’m just doing that?” And so, 2018 more formally done. But 2020 was when there was so many people impacted out there that I was not only doing it through my business, but I was also doing it supporting Jobs for Australia. So, I just love helping people with their next career destination.

I mean, I do have extra passion for STEM. Because I feel that there are so many voices that need to be elevated in that area. And that’s what my podcast is all about. And being able to showcase what people do in that space. It’s so amazing. And I’m helping people find their next career destination to lead to that point of fulfillment. I think that’s the key thing for me. Why do I do this? Why do I enjoy it? It’s that very thing. I get fulfillment out of others finding their joy and their passion. Then wanting to jump out of bed and be really hyped about what they’ve set out to do for the day. It’s one life we live and why not enjoy the vocation that we choose to do. So that’s pretty much the essence of it. Yeah.

Laura: I love that. And I love the term career destination. I think that’s so nice.

Jo: Yeah, we have so many of them.

Laura: So, the coaching side of things really fascinates me. And I’ve hopped on before, but I have a coach who I think is incredible. And I think every four weeks I do a 90-minute session with her, and I think it’s amazing because it’s 90 minutes where you get to reflect on you. I wish I’d known about it earlier in my career, I guess.

And I don’t think enough people do it. Because I think just taking that time to reflect and that actually just kind of really going through things. And I think with coaching, the big thing is, you know the answer. So, one’s just kind of shoving you down the right path. And I say shoving because sometimes I think in my career coach, she really is.

Jo: Yeah. Sometimes we need that.

Laura: It’s tough and confronting. I guess for anyone that’s maybe thought about coaching, but hasn’t taken the plunge, what advice would you give people? Or I guess what reoccurring themes are coming up in your coaching?

Jo: Yeah. Okay. There’s a couple of things with that. I totally aligned with needing a coach. Because if I reflect on my career whenever I felt like I had success, so in other words, what made me happy in the vocation that I’ve chosen and the role that I’ve done, is I’ve had a mentor or a coach. And I had that, and I reflect on it and it wasn’t formally so. It just naturally was happening. But I more formally signed up for coaching in 2018. When I decided to embark on my changes within my career, I needed someone to talk to through things with, to workshop. And in fact, where I thought I needed support was completely different from a personal perspective and it’s changed my life completely.

I have to say, we can all absolutely achieve what we want to. You set the intention, you go forward, and you can achieve it if you really want to. And it’s a must, you’ll make it happen. But a coach gives you that extra two millimeters and you get further, faster. And in this day and age, for some reason, we have so much haste. When we come up with an idea of something, we need to do it now. And if we don’t do it now, it becomes stagnant. And then we get upset that we haven’t done it yet.

Well, the coach is there to keep you on track. If you’re thinking it from a fitness perspective, you can’t just run really willy-nilly. I’ve just decided to, just the other day through Sarah Piper, who I work with at Invisible Partners, from not running at all to becoming a 5K runner. And I wouldn’t have been able to do it myself. I needed someone to encourage me to give me those fitness tips and how to go about doing it. It’s the same thing with your career. It’s the same thing with any area of your life, really. A coach is necessary.

Tim: Is it more the guidance or the accountability, do you think? Someone holding you accountable?

Jo: I think it’s a bit of both. And the cool part is, good coaches, they meet you where you are, and they give you what you need without you knowing what that is. And it’s never just a one-stop shop. This is a framework that will work with this particular individual and so many others. The framework, but every individual is going through their own experiences and their own beliefs, their own cultural upbringing, where they lived, it sets the precedence of how they see life. And so, I think everyone needs a coach, but they should tweak the service accordingly.

Tim: Absolutely. Yeah.

Laura: I think there’s just something in there that you said that I want to get your take on as well. So, you said mentors and coaches. I’ve had quite a few people ask me, what’s the difference between mentors and coaches. So how would you sum that up?

Jo: Well, summing up as follows, a mentor is there to really give you that advice because they’ve gone through that situation themselves. A coach may or may not have necessarily gone through that experience, but they’ve been through enough, they’ve seen enough, they’ve coached enough, they’ve trained enough to be able to support you. And they would use a specific approach.

So, coach is more formal, maybe mentors, more informal, I’d say. So, we probably all have had mentors in our lives. And for me, as a solo parent, sometimes my kids are, to me. I’m learning from them. And so, irrespective of whether someone has had 20 more years experience than me, therefore they can be my mentor. A mentor can come in many forms, in any age, whether more senior or junior to you. I just feel like everyone has something to learn and everyone has something to teach.

Laura: Totally. I love that. I think I got summed up when I sort of went down the mentor and coaching route it’s like the 80/20 rule switched. So, you go into mentoring and they talk 80% of the time and you talk 20% because you just ask questions and you want to find out how they handle something. I also really love mentoring sessions because I love hearing how people did things and talking to people.

And coaching is the other way around. So, your coach talks for 20% of the time because they ask the big questions and you spend 80% talking. Or in my coaching sessions, I spent 80% going, “Ooh. Good question. Don’t know the answer”, and then she’ll stay quiet until I figure out the answer. I don’t enjoy those quite as much at the time.

Tim: It’s the long pause. The long pause is what gets you.

Laura: Yeah, and the look of, come on, you’re not getting away with that one. And you’re like, “Oh. God damn it”.

Tim: It’s a bit like the Paddington Bear hard stare.

Laura: Yes. It is. That’s a great way.

Jo: I like that.

Laura: I guess just going back to your career and with everything that you know now, what advice would you give to someone just starting out in recruitment, TA, HR?

Tim: That’s a loaded question.

Jo: Yeah. Okay. My advice for anyone, whether it’s recruiting or any other vocation, when you decide to embark on something and you’ve made that decision, go full out with it. Try. Just try. And if you feel that it gets to the stage that you’re not happy, make that change, because, if I reflect on my career switch, I was deliberating in those six months after I’d made that decision like, “Have I done the right thing? I thought I was going to be a scientist for the rest of my life. And here I am recruiting”. But I decided to trust myself. Trust myself, and just give it a go and see what happens next.

And I’m glad I did because it led to so many amazing things, and to this point now. So, what I will say is, once you decide on something, go full out, don’t do anything half-assed, it’s not worth it. Because if it’s not for you move on and do something that is. Because I believe, I’m going to sound, just putting it out there. Everyone has a unique skillset. There’s no other Laura. There’s no other Tim. There’s no one else has done exactly what you’ve done, right? Everyone has a unique proposition and can use that for something. Something that can make an impact, of significance, out there. So, my advice is, if you’ve chosen something, doesn’t feel right, don’t do it anymore. Keep looking until you find something that does. And get a coach to help you get there further, faster.

Tim: I think the coaching side is really interesting because in my early stage of my career, I definitely had a lot of mentors, because it was a technical background. And therefore, you go and find someone who’s done it before, but coaching never appeared for me until about maybe 10, 15 years ago. And even then it wasn’t really a formal… It was something I fell into. And it’s quite interesting because I’d never formally had a coach, but I know so many people that have got coaches, I’m thinking, “Well, maybe I’m missing something here”. It’s really interesting, so now I feel left out.

Jo: No, don’t feel left out. The way I see it is you probably didn’t need it until the time that you realised you did.

Tim: Yeah. Probably.

Jo: There’s a form of readiness as well. So, you are going about your business, doing what you’re doing and then you thought, “Well, hang on. This might be for me as well”. That’s the way I see it. Yeah. You haven’t missed out. You’re just doing it now.

Tim: Yeah. What you said.

Laura: I think that’s a good summary. But I think you’re right. I think for me as well, I think coaching, it has grown over the last few years. And if you look at all the data, particularly coming out of the U.S., the number of career coaches and people actually seeking that guidance has gone up. And I think, when you said earlier, anyone that says, “I started a business in 2020”, you always look at them like, really? Did you think that was a good idea? But actually coaching probably was the perfect business because it was a time that all of us were questioning our careers and going, are we doing the right thing? And actually we’ve got this chance to reflect. And I think people are now looking to coaches or mentors and those kinds of things to start validating that and make the big changes, like starting your own career or going from being a scientist to a recruiter. Why wouldn’t you do that in 2020, right?

Tim: Opening a dog walking business, that seems to be one at the moment. There’s so many puppies out there.

Laura: Yeah.

Jo: That’s a great idea. Yeah.

Laura: Going back to your career then I think obviously there were a few big changes, science to recruitment, recruitment to TA, TA to starting your own business. Have you had mentors along the way that have helped you with that? Or how have you kind of navigated those steps?

Jo: Absolutely. The first ever mentor, I didn’t know she was a mentor at the time, but she was by default is Chris Richards. I still have a warm place in my heart for her. The first recruiting gig that I did, it was all to do with her and her setting me up for success. So, I’d say she was the very first mentor that I had. It was taking that plunge. It was a steep learning curve for the first six months. And she was there being very supportive and always offering advice.

And the key thing that she had suggested, I remember, was take and maintain control. Whether it is you’re talking to a client or candidates or you’re getting up and presenting information on recruiting, just do that. And that’s always stayed with me that very comment. And then throughout my journey, I have had a mentor by default in every role that I’ve worked in and there’ll be too many names to shout out.

But in essence, when I got to GSK, there were so many amazing individuals and one of which is Zahed Kamathia. He’s actually heading up talent and L&D at Lego at the moment. And just the nature of how he approaches supporting businesses with learning and enhancing careers within an organisation. He’s doing a lot around internal mobility right now as well.

So, if I reflect on two key people, they are it so far. But more formally, I’ve had a couple of amazing coaches that have been supporting me with the growth journey from 2018 until now, both from a personal perspective and a business perspective at the same time. I mean, I could come up with one person for each role that I’ve worked in. No doubt.

Tim: Isn’t it interesting how that happens though, in the fact that you ebb and flow where you are in your career or your life. There’ll be certain people that come in and give you an absolute nugget that you go, “Oh, it’s so amazing. Thank you so much”, and then you might not speak to them for a while again, but that one piece stays with you.

It’s interesting that you said that the first mentor you had at the recruitment agency gave you one thing you’ve always remembered. And I always talk about my first job as an engineer. They put you out with a senior engineer and he gave me a piece of advice and I’ve stuck by that, through my entire career. And it’s actually done me very, very well. That one piece of little nugget, which then I pass on to other people as well. It’s like, I don’t know where it’s come from, whether it’s just out in the ether and then you just move those forward.

Jo: Absolutely. Yeah. And now you’re just making me reflect on all the names. I won’t shout out here, but yeah, I think what I might do is actually get in touch with them. You’ve just inspired me to do that. Yeah.

Laura: That’s nice.

Tim: Laura is also looking for extra people to come into her podcast because that’s what this is. All she’s doing this for is really just improving her network. That’s all she’s doing.

Jo: What you’re getting out of it, Laura, and that’s beautiful. That’s a beautiful thing. Expanding your network, but you’re having meaningful conversations. You’re making those meaningful connections and you’re hearing about career stories that are so colourful and beautiful. And from there, you may have people that connect with others as a consequence. So, the impact that you’re making, jokes aside, I think it’s going to be a big one. So, I love what you’re doing. So, keep going with it.

Laura: Thank you. We started this because what we wanted to do is highlight that there’s so many different ways to the same thing. There isn’t this everyone’s, like we were saying earlier, you do this job and then you step up to the next role and then this happened. But actually, it very rarely works out that way. But I’m pretty sure when we all graduated university, we all thought that’s what working life was going to be like. And then actually it’s not.

And if anything, last year really proved that, as things kind of fell apart for a lot of people and lots of us didn’t know what we were going to do. And I think it was just that. And everyone we’ve spoke to, and I think this the 20th recording, whatever we’ve done over the last however many weeks, nobody has anything in common in terms of how they got to where they are. There’s definite themes that come up in terms of things we wish we were better at. There’s tons of themes around resilience and backing ourselves and listening to our gut and those things come up as lessons learned.

Just even saying those things out loud sometimes and sharing that actually all of us just need to do a better job of that makes you feel a bit better that you’re not doing it very well that week or whatever. But also just takes the pressure off the fact that you should be steadily climbing this ladder that doesn’t exist.

Tim: Especially not the moment.

Jo: Exactly. Yep. Yeah. And we all have this perception of what we think we ought to be. And then really, we just need to be ourselves and just find what it is that lights us up and then turning that into something that can give you that financial freedom at the same time. Yeah. It’s important.

Laura: But I think that’s why the coaching stuff that you’re doing, especially around that kind of career coaching. And I still love the idea of the destination. It’s just so important right now as well, because I think it’s just such a great time for people to be able to sit and reflect on that.

Jo: Agreed. And the thing is, going on to your next career destination, people have certain expectations. Back to your point of expecting themselves to be a certain way versus what they think they ought to be. And then what they really should be in line with their wants, needs, and what’s going to fulfill them. What’s also important is right now you’re making a decision that reflects the life that you have. And it doesn’t mean that decision is going to be with you always, you have to continue that progress.

So, career destination for the what now, because of your life circumstance or your financial circumstance, in some cases. A lot of that was happening last year, where people were working in a certain sector and that sector is no longer hiring. They no longer need people. So, it’s about embarking on something new because financially they needed to.

And the mindset of, “Oh gosh. My career is now going to take a detour and I’m off track”. No. I think every step that you take is adding some value, some learning, and it’s putting you more forward to not doing anything at all. So, I feel, career circumstance is based on life circumstance at the same time and your financial situation too. And it’s okay to make a decision for now and trust yourself to try it out. And if it isn’t any good, then change it. Because you can. You’re in control of your life. You’re the master of your life. So why not?

Laura: I think that’s so true. And I think just this going back to the circumstances, just making the most of it. I had a couple of friends, a couple of girlfriends, that started business over the last six months as well. And we quite often talk now, especially going what’s happening kind of in Australia in terms of hiring. Is it almost stupid of us not to go back into that domain and get these great jobs that 12 months ago we wouldn’t have gotten interviewed for, but now, now we can.

But actually, what we’re doing, we’re learning so much doing it. That if that’s what we’re enjoying and that’s what’s happening, let’s just see it as a learning journey. See what happens, because you can revert back to what you’ve always done. If something happened with your business, you can go and do recruitment. You’ve got those skills and that skillset isn’t going to change, but actually let’s take the most of these opportunities that come to us and see what the next destination is and just enjoy the journey while you’re on it. Rather than kind of expecting us to have all the answers all the time.

Jo: Agreed. Yes. Enjoy the process, trust the process, as I say.

Laura: Yeah. I think enjoy it. Actually, I had somebody else that runs a start-up send me an email this week and then that one bit of it was just, ‘PS enjoy the journey’, because kind of three or four years ahead and I think you forget it while you’re in it. And then you kind of romanticise years later about the start and like, “Wasn’t it great?”.

Jo: It wasn’t. It was hard. It was difficult. It was uncertain.

Tim: It’s definitely moments, that’s for sure.

Laura: Just looking at time, I’ve got a couple more questions. I guess, with everything you’re doing, obviously still fractional Head of TA and your business, how are you keeping on top of everything? Do you have go-to resources, kind of methods that mean that you’re up to date with what’s going on?

Jo: Yeah. There’s a few things in that. So, time and structuring my time is quite important. Solo parenting, running a business, and working in a part-time as well at the same time. And I’m always an optimist. I’m always like, “Yes”. I say yes a lot to things and then go, “Right. I’m going to figure out how later”. But I’ve been more focused and consistent with how I approach it. And I think self-care is quite important. So ,listening to resources that are going to keep me in that elevated frame of mind, that high energy, making sure that when I’m doing parenting, I’m showing up a 100% and I’m committed to that. Or if I’m working in the role of Head of Talent, making sure that I’m giving all that I need to the clients and the candidates, and all of the TA professionals that are working with our clients, setting them up for success.

And then when it’s coming to my businesses, it’s all right, so I’m focusing on this, doing it fully a 100%. So, it’s structuring my time. The self-care piece, I’m getting better at. But at least once a week, a podcast of some kind. I love to read, but I don’t have the chance. I’m not going to say I’m too busy. I don’t have the chance to sit down and flick through things. I’ve listened to audio. So, I’ve got three things on the go the moment and it’s probably testament to where my mindset is at.

So, I’m reading The Barefoot Investor, on one hand. Being in a start-up business, I think it’s important to be money savvy. And then from an inspirational perspective, Oprah Winfrey – ‘What I Know For Sure’. Just little snippets, little stories there. And then a book that was gifted to me for my birthday, ‘Phosphorescence’ – Julia Baird. And actually one of the candidates that I was coaching, with the STEM background, we were talking about that. And she had also recommended that. So, it was funny that it was gifted to me and she had mentioned it, so that was pretty awesome.

So yeah, those three things on the go. Self-care time also includes making sure I’m moving. So, fitness perspective because when you’re waking up some mornings and you’ve had a bit of a lull and you feel tired because you haven’t had much sleep, it’s like, how do you get the best out of yourself? It’s actually to move. Action leads to an elevated frame of mind. So, making sure that some kind of physical activity, whether it’s hitting the weights or going for a run. And my new found freedom with running, I never loved running, and I’m learning to love it. I’m not all there yet. So, learning to love it, having done my first 5K run, just Sunday gone.

So, from a perspective of resources, how to keep track. Also being part of the Talent Table Network and making sure to stay connected with TA professionals. So that’s more from a work perspective. And from the self-development side of things, it’s always with my coach asking, what’s the next best thing to read or to listen to. At the moment, I’m really stuck on Deepak Chopra from a meditation perspective. So that keeps me Zen.

And Simon Sinek. He talks so much about the why and the very first part of the process that I take people through starts with self-evaluation and it’s happening more and more now. I see it more and more as you reflected on what you were saying earlier last year, people going through such huge changes from a personal career perspective, starting to ask themselves, “What am I going to do and why? What is my why? What is my purpose?”. And so, I’m stuck on Simon at the moment and listening to his podcast. There’s one on optimism that I feel is a really good one to listen to. Irrespective of background or whatever sector you’re in, just talking about things to elevate your mind in this day and age with what’s been happening.

Resources, keeping abreast, it’s so important. I feel the self-development journey, it never ends. There’s always something to learn. And then through conversation, hopefully inspiring others to learn something from what you’ve been learning and then looking into things and then them teaching you. And yeah, I feel that’s quite important. At one point in my life, I wasn’t consciously, necessarily working on self-development and then suddenly I was, and I don’t know the time before that, but I know the time now. Every day there’s something more to do. There’s something more to give. Something more to learn.

Laura: Totally. We’re both big Simon Sinek fans. I need to listen to his podcast. Congrats on the 5K, by the way. That’s my new year’s resolution every year and it never happens. And I’m so jealous of everybody that says, “Oh, I love running”, because I hate it.

Tim: Yeah, it’s.

Jo: I think it’s okay.

Laura: Yeah, but still.

Jo: You come along to the next one, if you like.

Tim: And watch.

Jo: We’ve got another, if you were in Melbourne. It’ll be easier.

Laura: I’ll come along and cheer for you.

Jo: All right. Fine. I’ll ask you again. I’ll ask you again in the future.

Laura: You’re right about moving. And I am, I walk to work every day because it’s my kind of downtime, but it’s that separation between that kind of and getting yourself ready. When I don’t do it, I definitely notice the difference in terms of mental state. And that’s why I’ve always wanted to love running, I desperately want to, I just can’t. It’s not for me.

Jo: Hmm, yeah, and we’ll talk more. I was saying exactly the same thing you are. I had this desire to just chuck on a pair of running shoes wherever I am and just go for a run. Yeah, and it took a lot to get to the point of readiness, from a mindset perspective. It’s all to do with mindset, and it’s from the physicality. You can make your body do anything. You can set your mind to it. Yeah.

Laura: Okay. We’ll talk about that later. Last question then. Just in terms of who else you’d like to hear from. Who would you like to hear from on the podcast?

Jo: Gosh. Okay. So, I know of the people that have been on, so some of which I would have suggested, so that’s really cool. So, if I go a whistle-stop tour around the globe, because many of the people that have been recommended are probably Australia wide. So, I will go to the UK and say Zahed Kamathia. If you get him on, that would be amazing. You would have an enjoyable conversation and learn a lot.

From a perspective of other professionals, Jo Tippins, she’s the HR director in GSK. She was, without her knowing, my mentor at the time in the business. It’s really cool to hear from her. Chris Richards, of course. She went on to do other things. I can’t recall where she is now, but she’s always going to be in my heart as the first person who gave me that solid piece of advice and helped me with my career. So, I’d say Chris Richards.

And then from the perspective of a journey, that’s been so interesting, so colourful. It was the first person I placed when I worked at lab support. And he went on, and he’s a scientist, he got into recruiting and then he had this amazing transition to work in a recruiting role in the clinical research sector. It’s amazing what you can do with a recruiting background. So yeah. Joel. I’ll give you these people’s names. Yeah, that’s just off the top of my head.

And then for anyone that hasn’t been on from the Jobs for Australia tribe, so Amy Thomas. I know Michael Delaney is already been on. Rebecca Powell has already been on. I think Pavi’s already been on. I think Sandra Lim, she’s such a cool character. She’s also got her side businesses and she’s also a foodie. Amazing. She’s got an Instagram account and although not much traveling has happened, she’s really into her food. So, every time we catch up, it’s Sandra that books the place that we’re going to eat.

Laura: She sounds like a friend we all need. We all need that friend. That’s awesome.

Jo: That’s off the top of my head. Yeah.

Laura: Thank you so much for this morning.

Jo: Excellent. Well enjoy the rest of your day. I really had fun with this. Thank you.

Tim: No problem. Goodbye.

 

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