Strivin & Thrivin Ep7. Hope Dawson

Strivin & Thrivin Ep7. Hope Dawson – Founder of Forme Consultancy


“Every day is a challenge”

This week we’re excited to hear from Hope Dawson who took the plunge to set up her own business in order to gain more autonomy and control over her career. Something many of us has thought about, but not had the courage or opportunity to do. Speaking to Hope, she shares her experiences, from overcoming her fears, learning new skills and becoming your own boss. During our chat we learn about set backs and the challenges and how she sees things developing so she can earn her millions and buy that beach house! 

So, Who is Hope Dawson? 

Previously a People and Culture Manager, Hope now runs Forme Consultancy, specialising in Human Resources and Talent Acquisition. 

Before setting up her own shop, Hope’s career trajectory was pretty linear, though she started out as a nursing student with the ambition to become a midwife. 

I realized that I just did not feel mature enough. I just did not feel ready. It was just so overwhelming that I decided to take a year out.” She tells us “Then, like most people, I decided to take a gap year again and go travelling.” 

As a natural people person, Hope pursued recruitment following some further education in the UK, prior to being headhunted by a firm in Sydney. A big relocation proved to be the first bold career move of many and as things progressed she found herself wanting more flexibility and control over her career, which is when she set out to launch Forme.

“I love working in HR, but I really wanted to be able to give back. So not just give back through my position on what I do on a day-to-day basis, but also give back to the world that we live in.”

Forme boasts a strong charitable initiative, whereby each project donates a cut to one of four charities within the companies offering. During our chat we discuss all aspects of setting up a business, learning self-discipline and the skills she has been forced to learn to get things off the ground. 

“When you work for yourself, You know, you are the only one that’s accountable for what you do on that day.”

We discuss what she loves about her job, understanding and navigating people and projects, with particular emphasis on the level of organisation required to juggle projects from multiple clients at any given time. We learn as, with most people, her career hasn’t been without fault. 

“This business is a passion of mine and I want to get it right, but we’re all human and we are going to make mistakes”

Find out more about the mistakes she’s overcome, her best – and worst- advice and the big dreams she’s still chasing. Listen to the latest Strivin & Thrivin podcast now! 


Laura: I’m your host, Laura Johnson. And today I’m joined by Hope, HR and People Specialist and Entrepreneur.

Okay. All right then to get us started, can you tell us a little bit about your career background and your current role?

Hope: Yes, of course I can. So, I just founded my own business called Forme Consultancy, which is an HR consultancy business that has a huge focus on Talent Acquisition. How I got there is a story. So originally, I went to university back in the day to do nursing so a completely different career path.

I had always wanted to be a nurse. Dead-set on wanting to be a midwife. When I went to the uni, I realised that I just did not feel mature enough. I did not feel ready. It was just so overwhelming that I decided to take a year out and get some experience at an old people’s home and do caring work.

Then, like most people, I decided to take a gap year again and go travelling, which was amazing. I travelled around Australia and New Zealand and came back, and I think it’s potentially the story for a lot, I kind of fell into recruitment, so needed to get back into the workplace pretty quickly because travelling isn’t always that cheap and so I went to an agency and asked them to sign me up for any casual roles that come in. Then I got a call a couple of days later from the manager saying, actually we have a role here for a Junior Recruitment Consultant position, would that be of interest? And I was like, “Yeah, all right. Let’s give this a go”.

In a weird way, I kind of linked it to working with people. I’ve always wanted to work with people, and that’s why I went into nursing and recruitment and that HR space is also really linked to that people side. So, it was still aligned with something I wanted to do.

I ended up doing a qualification in the UK for HR, then moved into some HR roles in the UK and then got headhunted from LinkedIn to come over to an agency called Charterhouse in Sydney. So relocated my life to Australia, which took some time for me to make sure it was the right decision and then it kind of fell from there.

I went into HR here at the Grounds of Alexandria, which was an amazing three years and I sat down one day, and I was like, really want to do this role, but I just want to have a bit more flexibility around it. I felt like if I didn’t give it a go now, I’m never going to give it a go. So, I decided to create Forme.

Laura: I love that. Do you want to talk to us a little bit about Forme, what you’re doing, who you’re doing it for, how it’s kind of working so far?

Hope: Okay. So, Forme it’s a pretty new venture for me. So, every day is getting through what I should and shouldn’t be doing, but Forme –  the idea around it is I love working with people, I love working in HR, but I really wanted to be able to give back. So not just give back through my position on what I do on a day-to-day basis, but also give back, not to sound super cheesy but to the world that we live in, so I created Forme, so I could still do my HR and still get clients on board and support them with their day-to-day function.

But also, so I could take 5% of their invoice and give it to charity. I’ve got four charities that I’ve specifically chosen that really kind of resonate with me, but also, it’s their choice. If they want to give it back to a charity of their choice and then I also give 5% back to them as a business, but it has to be through wellbeing and mindfulness and mental health, but basically back to their employees so they can create an even better working environment. I just found that that’s really important to me.

Having worked in the HR space, I don’t always think that we have the budget to be able to give back to the employees in those forms and it could be anything from yoga to training sessions, to team activities, anything that kind of, you know, gives you, gives you that bump. So, I thought I can do this through my own business.

It just helped me be more flexible with what I can do, which is why I started Forme and it’s going well, there are definitely some things that I need to give myself a kick up the ass with not very good at marketing and being creative. So, I’ve really had to kind of teach myself how to use social media properly and network and get myself out there. But yeah, I learned so much doing that, which is great. It’s going really well, and I’m really enjoying it.

Laura: I feel like the last bit about needing a kick up the ass is probably every independent business person or those starting a start-up where they’re like, you have certain days where you’re like, I’ve got this and you’re a million miles an hour and other days that you’re just like, yeah, I don’t know what to do.

Hope: Oh yeah, absolutely happens. I think when you work for yourself, you are the only one that’s accountable for what you do in that day. So, like you said, some days I wake up and it’s like, I don’t know. Someone’s just put this massive bit of energy in me when I’ve been asleep, and I wake up with everything I’m ready and set to go.

Then there are other days that I wake up and I’m like, I don’t even know where to start here and it takes a bit of a while and I have to have at least three strong cups of tea before I even start on my to-do list. So yeah, every day is a challenge.

Laura: Yeah. But like you say, I feel like the learnings that come out of it are huge. Like you probably learned more in the last few months doing your own thing than you would ever do in any kind of role that you could take.

Hope: Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, it’s not even just, I felt pretty confident with my HR ability, which is why I said, I hope I do, because I set myself up an HR consultancy, but it’s all the other little things that you do not think of when you start your own business.

So, even to the point of setting up your own business name and then making sure that the domain is available and making sure that you can link it to your website and all the beginnings of a set up for yourself, I think. You go into this with all the right intentions that it’s going to not be easy, but you know, in a couple of months I’m going to have everything ready.

My website is going to be amazing. I’m going to be getting clients and, you know, things start to pile up and you’re like, “Oh, didn’t think of that. I didn’t think of that”. So yeah. It’s been fun.

Laura: I think there’s that and I also think that everything takes at least three times longer than I think it’s going to in my head. I’m like, “Oh, that that’s an hour”. Then like three hours later, you’re like, “I’m still not done. Okay, great. That was half the morning”.

Hope: Yeah, definitely. I couldn’t agree more.

Laura: So,  then I guess going back to your love for HR, like what is it about the job that you love?

Hope: I just, I love connecting with people, I’d like to think that I’m a people person. I just feel like every day is so different. It really challenges me. It’s also solving a problem, there’s no better… I can’t think of the word when you feel so good when someone comes to you with a situation and they say, “Hey, this is our situation”.

We really need you to get to X, Y, Z, and then you can provide that solution. But while you’re providing that solution, it’s not just a black and white solution. It’s like, right, you know, let’s do this. It’s also supporting people along the way. So, it really is just around the people and kind of navigating through that.

Laura: And then I guess maybe this isn’t quite an easy answer for you right now, but maybe more when you’re kind of onsite helping clients or in HR, like what does a normal day look like in that HR role?

Hope: It just really varies on every single client, but I can give you a brief day of what working with one of my clients is like. So, I normally get there, get into the office, kind of hot desks as obviously I’m being a consultant.

I always have a meeting first thing and set with my clients and say, “Okay, what’s happened since I last saw you, what do you want me to focus on today? What’s urgent? What’s not?”. You know, also kind of have a bit of a debrief of what I’ve been up to because it’s not with a consultancy you’re not there every single day, like a nine to five employee, it’s ad-hoc and also working from home.

Then it’s just kind of navigating through different HR projects, but doing it with the team, making sure that all the directors and all the managers are involved and it’s so hard to pinpoint what the average working day would look like, but I always started with, what are we going to do today together and how are we going to get that in the time that you’d want me?

Laura: I love that. So is that kind of your top tip, almost like setting realistic expectations of yourself.

Hope: Yes, it is. I just read this pretty short book, but it really helped me set some expectations it’s called ‘Eat that Frog’. I’m not sure if you’ve heard about it,

Laura: I haven’t but I like it already.

Hope: I know the title is great. So, it’s all about how you can have the biggest to-do list in front of you and you can have all these things flying into your inbox and everything’s there, and it’s just how you put that into setting yourself some realistic expectations.

So, you get the most out of your day and he talks about doing this method and it’s called the ‘ABCDE method’. So, you have a to-do list and everything that is urgent, that absolutely needs to be done that day. You put an, ‘A’ next to it and then you go down to ‘E’ and he is like, look, love to get that done at some point.

But if that doesn’t happen in the next two, three weeks, then I’m not going to beat myself up about it. And since I’ve started doing that with my client, you’ll be really surprised to see how they do this, that they’ve given me are all ‘A’s’, but actually, when we’ve sat down and broken it down, it’s, that’s not the case.

There might actually just be one ‘A’ for that day that’s we can kind of focus on. Then you kind of feel like it’s an essential set, you know, sense of achievement as well. You’re ticking off that as it goes and also, I think just effective communication is really essential and it goes back to that list.

People will come to you and say, I want this now and you just push back and say, “Okay, I can get this done for you in this timeframe”, and they go, “Yeah, okay. Great. Perfect”. Cause they can just wipe that off their list then as well. So that’s how I set that sort of realistic expectations.

Laura: I really like that. It’s a great framework and as you’ve mentioned it, as you’ve just started talking about books, how do you keep up to date with everything with such a varied role? There’s almost so much going on in each kind of not only the starting your own business, but in the HR side of things as well, there’s so much happening there.

How do you stay on top of what’s going on in skills development?

Hope: I signed up for every single newsletter that I could ever imagine, but I make sure it filters into a folder in my inbox so I’m not overwhelmed when I wake up in the morning and have like 20 new emails that I can read later. So, a huge one for me obviously, is signing up to fair work and all that kind of legislation in regards to the HR space, just staying on top of any new changes in the industry.

That covers most industries, if I get a new client and they’re predominantly, I work with hospitality, so I make sure that I’m signed up to kind of all the events that happen within hospitality and all the magazines that talk about new businesses and new concepts.

So, I can talk about that if my clients are in those magazines and kind of keep on top of it. If I sign up a new client and they’re in a completely different industry, I spend a good hour just making sure that I’ve got everything that I need to know coming into my email about that, so I can make sure that I’m relative to them.

Laura: That’s awesome. Have you got any must-read newsletters or must-read books other than the, ‘Eat my frog?’.

Hope: Yeah. Well, I’ve really just, I kind of got a bit wild with Booktopia recently. I think I’ve just something that’s in the water and I just, I honestly bought every single personal growth book. I think that’s out there that I had recommended to me in the past because I’m like, why not? You know, why not read them all? Because surely if I can get one sentence or one paragraph out of every single one of these books it’s going to help.

So, I’m kind of still ticking through them. There’s a podcast that I really recommend, which is called, ‘How I Work’, which is, through a doctor, she’s called Dr. Amantha Imber. So, she was also through a seminar that I link to and that’s all about, she speaks to leading people in the industries about how they navigate through their days and have productive days.

So, it’s a 25 minute podcast and that really helps me align with what I’ve got. I’ll just quickly look at my bookshelf.

Laura: I feel like I’m popping over at some point to read that bookshelf.

Hope: Yeah, it’s great. ‘The Five Second Rule’ is also a good one. And I’ve read the ‘Miracle Morning’. Have you read the ‘Miracle Morning?’ So, it’s not related to work, which is obviously completely taken away from the question you just asked me, but it’s all about how you set yourself up in the mornings, which for me then gives me the benefit of the day is really good. I highly recommend it. You don’t have to tick all the boxes.

He goes into depth of giving yourself an hour to do these things, but he also gives you a way of doing it in six minutes. So, for people that have really hectic mornings, he gives you six tools to do in six minutes. It really helps you go into your day ready just to tick off your worklist.  I highly recommend that book.

Laura: I like that I read, Atomic Habits on the 1st of January, and that was a bit of a kick in terms of how I was structuring my morning. So I restructured my mornings based on that kind of habit stacking philosophy. I need to read the Miracle Morning too.

Hope: What happens outside of work also plays a massive part in what happens in your working day as well. So, mindfulness and making sure that you’re on top of your own self-care and that really helps with anything, any situation that’s thrown to you in the workplace.

Laura: Totally agree. I also think for me anyway, like how I mean how I start my day really sets me up. I feel like if you start off being like, yes, you know, I went for a swim and I meditated and you know, like all this kind of stuff, you’re like, right, I can take on the day. Then like other days, like this morning where like broke a mug and then like fell over, I stubbed my toe, you know, like, okay. Today’s, today’s not a good day.

Hope: Very true. I feel like, you know, when you, like you said if I’ve had a swim in the morning or done any sort of exercise… I just feel that anyone could throw anything at me and I’m ready. Yeah. I’m ready for the day. Come at me.

Laura: All right. Okay. Going back to what you were saying earlier, just kind of career-wise and all the different roles that you’ve had, what would you say would be kind of best or worst career advice that you’ve had along the way?

Hope: So, I wouldn’t say it was the worst advice, but I’ve definitely had advice that just didn’t relate to the way I work, which really sat with me. So obviously I worked- it was back in my agency days when I was recruiter- so BD sales, I get it, it needs to be done. I really enjoy the sales side of it, but my old manager just had a different way about how she works.

So, I would call through to somebody and say, you know, “Hi, this is Hope calling from X, Y, Z. I can see that you’ve advertised for this role, or, you know, would love to work with you in the future”. They could turn around and say, “No, I’m not interested at the moment”, and I would put down the phone.

So, there’s other ways that I can reach out to them and kind of tap on their shoulder every couple of weeks, just so they keep me in their front mind if they do want to use me. But my old manager was like, “No, you can’t just put the phone down and that cannot be the only call you make to that person”.

She would really push me to just hound, hound, hound, this person until I got something out of that client. So, I’m not saying it’s like the worst advice, but for me, that’s just not how I worked. So, it really kind of made me feel a bit of resentment for that role because I was really uncomfortable doing that, as you can imagine. If you get someone calling you one day and you say no, and then they call you two days later with the exact same question, you’re going to end up just going, I’m going to blacklist you. I don’t want to talk to you again.

But, in her book, there are no questions around it. That was what was expected of me and in my kind of monthly one-on-one, she said, “How many times have you contacted them?”, “Oh, I contact them twice through a call”, “That’s not good enough”. Okay, so yeah, that just for me, I just felt like it was not great advice and I just think everyone’s completely different. Every person’s different, every business is different and there are so many other ways to sell, and BD through networking through sending them newsletters about that industry.

So free advice, just kind of little, not parcels in the post, but like a little thank you note or anything, that’s kind of connects with them so they trust you rather than just use you out of pressure and just to get you off their back. So I hope that’s answered that question.. Because it’s not the worst advice but it just didn’t work with me.

Laura: So, I think, yeah, okay. It’s not the, maybe the worst thing, the worst piece of advice anyone’s ever received, but I think there’s something there in terms of learnings around like personal style then actually like advice is really from the, you know, their reality and their perceptions of what’s happened and their learnings, which is totally different to yours, right?

So, it’s never going to be a one size fits all, whatever advice you get, you kind of need to take. Take what you can from it, but you don’t need to kind of take it for the verbatim, right?

Hope: I may be the person I am today, it really helped me find my niche. That’s why it’s advice that sticks with me forever because you know as you said, not everybody works in the same way and I think if you know that and you can adapt to their style, then that’s the way to go.

Laura: I guess like, you know, you’re saying it’s almost accepting your style, right? And knowing that there are different ways to do it and there are so many different routes to the same goal. You’ve just got to find the one that works for you and sits well with you from a values perspective and who you are as a person.

Hope: Yeah, definitely.

Laura: I guess on that then, can you talk to us about other learnings through your career, like mistakes that you think you’ve made or kind of key moments where kind you’ve had that light bulb type moment.

Hope: Yeah. I’m happy to talk about a mistake I made, and it was actually pretty recently, so very raw. I feel like now that I have my business as well, if you make a mistake, it’s fairly obvious there’s no one else to be held accountable apart from you. So, I made a mistake a couple of months ago.

I won’t go into too many details, but I just was not on top of an industry change, which is quite relative to what you’ve asked me then about what I listened to and what I’m signed up to, cause it may be really, really good on top of everything.

So, it was getting really hectic, and I missed a slight industry change for one of my clients and luckily I caught it just in time, but he had to be the one that said, “Oh, Hope did you know that this was happening?” and I was like, “Oh…no, I didn’t”. I just was honest. I was like, look, honesty’s the best policy. I just got to kind of openly admit that I’ve let something slide and that was a pretty big thing for me, cause it’s a pretty big new client as well.

So instantly I was, as you can imagine, I was thinking that’s it. He’s not going to want to use me again. He thinks I’m incapable of being an HR consultant, sign me off. That’s it, I’m done. I’m closing down shop. I’m just going to an Island, but I didn’t. I was just like, “Yeah, I made that mistake and I’m really sorry, but I am going to resolve it within the next hour. I am going to literally turn this around and you are not going to know any different”. And I did.

Now, because I’ve learned from that mistake, it’s made me really kind of take note of what I needed to be on top of. So, like you said, it was really important to be signed up to newsletters, to stay on top of what’s going on in your industry because that was a new industry of mine, it wasn’t the hospitality, I just wasn’t equipped. I wasn’t thinking I was kind of not seeing them as two different things. So it was, it, it was a pretty big mistake for me that happened, but I learnt so much from it. I can guarantee that it will never happen again.

Laura: I think the key there is like, I understand that you automatically go to worst-case scenario in those situations, right. But I think how you handled it and your attitude towards handling, it says so much more than the mistake.

Hope: Yeah, I hope so. He straight away was just like, “Yeah, great, thanks. You’ve sorted it now”. You know, gone over and above.  Now I have more than I needed and that’s fantastic, so he was great about it, but I think at that moment that you instantly have someone saying, you know, you’ve instantly realised that you’ve made a bit of a blunder. Your heart does drop, especially if it’s a passion of yours.

And this business is a passion of mine and I want to get it right, but we’re all human and we are going to make mistakes. I think it’s just about being completely honest about them and holding yourself accountable and just kind of getting through it, what is the worst that can happen if you can just say yes? I did that and rectified the situation.

Laura: Totally. I couldn’t agree with that more.  What do you think has been the key to your success with what you’ve been doing today within HR and then your own business?

Hope: I think the key to my success is honestly the tribe of people that I’ve had around me. It’s having a really great support network that could be so many different people, so many different things, my friends, my family, you know, network and people that I’ve met. I feel like it has been my success.

Cause when times have been tough, they kind of rally me through those times. So, you know, when you ever have any self-doubt or something, it’s not gone right in your workday, you can go back to there, any of those people. They basically put you back into the mindset of why you started this business and why you started in HR and remind you of your qualities that you can bring to the table.

Ultimately as well, when you have had success, you can turn it around the other way. When you have had success, they become your own personal cheerleaders. So, you, you know, you, you talked to him about your success and instantly you get flooded with, ‘That’s amazing. Well done’ and instantly you go from feeling great to feeling absolutely fantastic in it.

So yeah, I think it’s the tribe of people that I’ve got around me is the key to my success.

Laura: I love that and I think we’ve got a few same cheerleaders. Like I know what it’s like when you’re having one of these days, especially when you’re having a down day and you put those people will be like, come on, like, you’ve got this, let’s go. It does make a huge difference.

Also, those people just to celebrate your successes, because I think especially having your own business like it’s really easy not to celebrate the small wins because there’s always more to do and there’s always something else. But you’ve got to start celebrating the small things along the way. So, I think having those people that want to celebrate those wins and make sure that you celebrate them is so important.

Hope: Yeah. I mean, you know, I think I sent you it as well. I think I sent it to every single contact in my phone book of my branded mug. I was like, I’ve got, I’ve got my name on a mug. I can actually have a cup of tea with my business on it. So, I mean, to someone else, it might just be a cup, but for me, I’m like, this is it. I’m starting to see some changes.

So yeah, they’re great. You can celebrate every single success, little, you know, little or big in it. And like you said, you’ve got your cheerleaders behind you. That just absolutely, you know, that

Laura: It’s a very good-looking mug and you should celebrate that because I think it’s stuff like that, that you suddenly like, okay, it’s real. Like, its a real thing… I didn’t make it up. I think those things are really important.

Obviously, you’ve got a great support network around you, but do you have an official mentor? Do you do any mentoring?

Hope: I don’t do any mentoring but I definitely have somebody that has been a mentor to me in the past and she still is. She’s absolutely fantastic. So, when I worked at the Grounds of Alexandria it was a brand-new space, really in HR. I was the only person… I’m looking after, I think there’s like 500 people that work there. So, it was pretty big role and she’s got her own consultancy too, and she’d worked with them on a consultant basis. Her name is Marcella Davies, and she mentored me through that stage.

She was unbelievable, she definitely got me to where I am today. She gave me confidence. She, what I liked about her style is that, she would allow me to solve a problem and she would allow me to kind of map out how I was going to respond back to a certain HR situation or whatever came into the inbox.

She listened to me completely and then she would give me advice on it. So, you know, when I went into those mentoring sessions, she wouldn’t just jump straight in and dictate to me what she thought was right or wrong and, you know, go lead, lead me in that way. She would let me work it out for myself. She basically let me find my own feet, but also acted as a massive support for me at the same time. So yeah, she was amazing, and she still is. We still talk on a regular basis.

Laura: That’s incredible. What would you say is the most value that you’ve had from, from mentoring then, I guess, based on that relationship? And then maybe off that, like how do you prepare for those mentoring sessions when you go to speak to her?

Hope: I think is it’s having someone that you can bounce off with. Everyone walks into any day-to-day situation, you know, even just work, especially work. And you might think, you know, the right answer to it and you might want to respond, especially in the people space because everyone perceives things so differently.

So, the value to me was just having someone that’s been in the industry for so long has such a similar personality to me in regards to the people’s side. She could just confirm to me that I was right or even just kind of give me a few extra tools to help me navigate through the next situation better.

So, the value is just being able to bounce. Having someone next to me and alongside me, that’s from the industry that has probably seen these situations time and time again, and able to support me on that. For me, my advice to get the most out of your mentorship would be to go with a bit of a plan don’t waste that hour or however long you’ve got with that person, I would always bring real-life situations into it.

So, if I saw Marcella every month, I would always note down on a piece of paper between the times that I’d seen her. Anytime that I was like, I need to ask about this. Did I do this correctly? Could I have done anything differently? So, kind of go with real-life scenarios so she can kind of cut that or whoever she, or he can help you navigate through that. So, you kind of relate it to something that you’ve already had happened in the last couple of months.

Laura: I thought that was pretty great advice. Thank you. So, I guess, outside of having your own business. Do you have any passion projects?

Hope: Okay. Well, I do have a little passion project. I’ve been watching shark tank recently and I’ve just got this idea for a gadget that I’m pretty sure is going to make me millions. I’m just adamant it’s going to take off. I didn’t know how, if I could shout with this podcast, imagine if someone, I haven’t even copyrighted it. Honestly, I’m always kind of thinking of new ideas.

What’s a side hustle? How am I going to get that mansion on a beach? So, yeah. I even bought myself an inventor book from Amazon the other day, that’s how deep I’m going… to invent this oven, I’m not going to say anymore because I’m conscious of someone stealing that idea. Apart from that passion projects, for me… A massive project, a passion project is facing the ocean at the moment. So, I am learning to surf, and I’ve just signed up for two ocean swims.

Laura: Wow.

Hope: The fear of what is in those murky waters, especially in Australia. So yes, one of the passion projects I guess, is to get myself more active out in, out in the sea.

Laura: That’s incredible. I love that.

Hope: Hopefully you’ll be there to support me.

Laura: Oh yeah. 100% I’ll be there. I just think like the fact that you were just facing your fears and you’re throwing yourself into it is amazing, you know, like even signing it up as a battle in itself sometimes, isn’t it? like the fact that-

Hope: Yeah, yeah, it was quite lucky. I’ve got someone that’s doing it with me, so that was great. She’s really kind of pushing me. Yesterday was my first ocean swim properly. Do you know what I mean? I’ve been paddling in the ocean, so I’m not saying that I’ve ever been in an ocean. I definitely walked away, and I was like, this is going to be really hard, but I won’t give up.

Laura: That’s awesome. I love that so much. I know I was disparaging about your other idea, but that’s just because it’s not as exciting as these swims.

Hope: Well, honestly, just you wait until I pitch this idea. It’s or, Myers and David Jones and yeah, it would be about this new side hustle that I’ve got, but yeah, no one, it’s a terrible idea, but everyone’s got to have one. I’ll give it a go anyway.

Laura: When I say that,  I am just waiting for you to get the mansion by the sea so you carry on, however you need to get there.

Hope: I mean, you should be excited, when I design the gadget you’re getting one, so you can practice and, you know, give me all the feedback.

Laura: I think that might be the bit that I’m not excited about anyway. Well, thank you for everything today has been amazing in terms of who you’d like to hear more from who would you like us to interview from a TA and HR perspective?

Hope: So, I don’t have a specific name because, but I have a company that I would like you would love to hear more from and that’s Canva. Someone in HR in Canva. So, I followed them for a while, and I just feel like what they give back to their employees through what they offer. So, they have unlimited yoga, mindfulness. They just have so much, that’s not just your day-to-day package. I think it would be really interesting to see how that’s got them to where they are now because they are hugely successful, and I truly believe that is linked to the way that they have managed and recruited and looked after their employees and their staff.

Laura: I love that it’s such a glowing reference for them as well. I’ll see what I can do.

Hope: Yeah, thanks. “Canva, you need HR consultant?”.

Laura – Got to do it. All right. Awesome. Thank you so much.

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